Print Story Problems With Not Saving the US Auto Industry
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By wiredog (Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 09:46:41 AM EST) (all tags)
I'm not talking about a bailout here, even the Democrats in Congress have backed off of that, but something probably has to be done. But it might not be.


As the New Yorker points out:
... at a time when we’re talking (as we should be) about spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a stimulus package to get the economy moving again, it’s the very definition of being pennywise and pound-foolish to put tens or even hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk. It’s possible, of course, that the automakers would be able to go into Chapter 11 and still keep the assembly lines running, but there’s also a good chance they won’t.

...Letting them go under will do far more than twenty-five-billion-dollars worth of damage to the markets, to the economy, and to the federal budget.


Some sort of bankruptcy-like rescue, which wipes out the stock and bond holders may be necessary. But that might be dangerous too. The WaPo reports that
...many financial institutions hold bonds issued by the automakers. Moreover, an estimated $290 billion in credit-default swaps, which are contracts that function like insurance policies, have been written on that debt, according to the leading clearinghouse for such trades.

...bonds issued by General Motors, Ford and their lending companies make up about 10 percent of the high-yield bond market and that automakers represent one of the largest sectors in finance for banks.

Ouch.


Then consider the parts suppliers. If, say, GM goes bankrupt the suppliers may not be able to sell parts to GM, as it might not be able to get credit. The suppliers than wouldn't be able to get credit. If GM were a fully integrated operation this wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is.

Because, you see, the companies that supply GM also supply Ford, Chrysler, and the various foreign marks made in the US.

This is a problem. What happens to the Honda plant in South Carolina if it can't get parts? It may be making cars people want at a price they'll pay, but if it can't get parts it can't make cars. So it shuts down.


If we don't let GM, et alia, fail, then we're just enabling further problems, or maybe just delaying the inevitable. Although this may be a good time to delay the inevitable. Let them fail next year (or the year after), after the rest of the economy begins to recover.


And what about the workers? Eventually a million or so of them are, one way or another, going to lose their jobs. Jobs which won't come back. The rest will see cuts in pay and benefits. People being replaced with machines (I used to write industrial automation software.)

What do we do with these people? The ones whose jobs are being replaced with machines, but who don't have the type of intelligence to get office jobs like the ones we all have? Half the population is, by definition, of below average intelligence. Do we put them all to work at Mall-Wart at minimum wage? Enlist them all in the Army and send them to Iran? Some sort of make-work jobs, paid for by those of us who can do the jobs available in the modern post-industrial economy?

No answers here. But lots of questions...

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Problems With Not Saving the US Auto Industry | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Off for the weekend. by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #1 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 11:06:26 AM EST
Hanging out near Front Royal until late Sunday. See y'all Monday.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)



Sadly by wilsley (2.00 / 0) #2 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 11:06:44 AM EST
the times when you can make an okay living by doing normal work is disappearing and that goes in all sectors from retail to manufacturing.  Out sourcing, foreign products and inflation has lowered what a middle/low class can afford and do.

My God the robocop movies are coming true.




Dead or alive by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #5 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 12:05:52 PM EST
you're coming with me.

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I know you. You're dead! We killed you! by wilsley (2.00 / 0) #6 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 03:34:02 PM EST



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I remember my statistics class. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #3 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 11:11:05 AM EST
Half the population is, by definition, of below average intelligence.

That's not really the definition of average.





It's the definition of median average by Herring (4.00 / 1) #4 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 11:27:34 AM EST
But I agree that half the population doesn't have to be below the arithmetic mean average. Although assuming a normal distribution (which people do for IQ), they are.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge - Charles Darwin
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One advantage of normal govt. inaction by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 07:16:20 PM EST
is that it makes any "bailout*" type action likely to happen after GM files for chapter 11.

Wumpus

* Wagoner (GM HMFiC) was recently quoted as saying "the deck chairs are fine just as they are.  Get below and just bail a little."





Bailing *whom* out? by CountSpatula (2.00 / 0) #8 Fri Nov 21, 2008 at 07:27:59 PM EST
I wouldn't have an issue with this bailout if it were actually totally going to stimulate the companies, but, unfortunately, the president of the UAW has openly stated that his union is not going to negotiate on anything, including union members not having to put a little money into a healthcare fund.  I have this sinking feeling that UAW has damn near negotiated themselves out of a job.  The current situation is that a hell of a lot of that money is going to go pay the benefits and paychecks of retired UAW people, while much less is going to go actually stimulate those businesses.

Top that off with the fact that foreign automakers regularly put out kick-ass cars with great gas mileage and wonderful paneling that doesn't immediately buckle under when it comes to snow, salt and sand on the road, and we're talking about the big three going under.  Which they should.  I've had two failed businesses in my past, but you don't see me flying in a private jet to Congress to beg them for money because I was going broke.  Honestly, I say fuck them.  They haven't been able to compete for some time, and any stimulus package that comes to them will be blown away by upper management in week-long getaways with massage parlors, spas and archery ranges.


--
Organics.
"I've never been more afraid of a diary comment EVAR." - RapidHamster


It is possible by riceowlguy (4.00 / 1) #9 Sat Nov 22, 2008 at 10:31:00 AM EST
that if we let the Big Three fail, that the folks who were employed there (or supplied them with parts, services, etc. would find employment in either expanded US operations of foreign automakers or new US auto ventures.  The demand for cars in general is not going anywhere soon (there will be a downturn in the short term, but personal automobiles are too useful for demand to just disappear permanently), and I for one would like to see some new US auto companies that actually innovate get a shot.  They can start by buying the rights to make the Chevy Volt off of GM (or their creditors).

Pumping more money into the big three is a bad idea, which Wall Street has figured out - right now, going by GM's stock value, you could buy all of GM, a company with over sixty billion dollars in annual revenue, for just one billion dollars.  Unfortunately, you'd also be buying all their liabilities, which is why nobody has done this.  Companies that have a large base of retirees drawing pensions and health care simply can't compete with newer companies which never got into that business.  If the big three don't fail now, they'll fail later.  Maybe the right type of prepackaged bankruptcy would be able to fix this problem, but I doubt it.



High yield by duxup (2.00 / 0) #10 Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 10:54:43 PM EST
I guess maybe GM and those folks are making regular payments but they haven't been doing well for ages.   How did their bonds qualify as something above the "shit these guys haven't made a buck in ages, how are they going to pay" line and worth investing in?

____


seemed safer than mortages by garlic (2.00 / 0) #11 Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 10:53:27 AM EST


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Problems With Not Saving the US Auto Industry | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback